ANN: MS Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-18 07:10:18 UTC

[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
Source:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

======================

Please Note:

1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.

2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.

3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

VanguardLH

2008-04-18 07:31:46 UTC

Permalink

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

ju.c

2008-04-18 11:58:48 UTC

Permalink

I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

ju.c

Post by VanguardLH

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

Gordon

2008-04-18 12:23:43 UTC

Permalink

Post by ju.c
I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

VanguardLH

2008-04-18 21:33:37 UTC

Permalink

Post by Gordon

Post by ju.c
I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

Not without using additional software, like the Webmail extension
(http://webmail.mozdev.org/index.html) or FreePOPs (don't know if that
still works). Thunderbird alone, the way you mention, doesn't do
Hotmail.

VanguardLH

2008-04-18 21:23:55 UTC

Permalink

Post by ju.c
I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

And it is after June 30, 2008 wherever you are? What planet would that
be?

Nancy

2009-01-23 22:35:01 UTC

Permalink

HOW ???

Please tell the rest of us who don't want Windows Live Mail
--

Post by ju.c
I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
ju.c

Post by VanguardLH

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2009-01-23 23:14:44 UTC

Permalink

You really should get out more often, my dear. First of all, see
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5745.entry (05
Jun-08), which is a follow-up to
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry (17
Apr-08).

Now see
http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/settings/archive/2009/01/13/pop3-availability-in-windows-live-hotmail.aspx
(13 Jan-09)
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Post by Nancy
HOW ???
Please tell the rest of us who don't want Windows Live Mail

Post by ju.c
I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
ju.c

Post by VanguardLH

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-18 16:18:44 UTC

Permalink

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>

Post by VanguardLH

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

--
~PA Bear

ANONYMOUS

2008-04-18 19:18:59 UTC

Permalink

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
it in the museum!!

hth

David Morgan (MAMS)

2008-04-19 06:46:24 UTC

Permalink

Post by ANONYMOUS

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

N. Miller

2008-04-27 16:31:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by David Morgan (MAMS)

Post by ANONYMOUS

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

And you have the Wireshark logs to prove that assertion?

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

VanguardLH

2008-04-18 21:53:36 UTC

Permalink

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
<snip>

Post by VanguardLH

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Wonder how long Microsoft is going to carry those legacy accounts. I've
heard from users of MSN legacy accounts that they still get POP access.
I don't know if the *Hotmail* legacy accounts (legacy as of July 2002
when POP got dropped) continued to get POP access. I thought only the
MSN legacy accounts continued to get POP access.

- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail.
- 2000 February: For MSN, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN accounts created after that date only get
WebDAV access.
- 2002 July: For Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access.
- 2004 November: For Hotmail, Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV
access for *new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old
(and still active) accounts created before that policy change date
continue to get WebDAV access. New accounts created after that date
must pay to get WebDAV access.
- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV and forces use of DeltaSync.

Chris

2008-04-22 20:07:01 UTC

Permalink

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Thank you for this information. So does this mean that when the new changes
take place on 30 June that:

1-Only HTTP Hotmail will stop working with Outlook Express and POP3 access
will carry on as usual?
2- MSN Messenger will stop working unless live mail is installed?
3- One cannot install both live mail and outlook express?

I have a subscription hotmail account and currently access it with both POP3
and HTTP with simultaneous syncronization. I do not really wish to change to
windows live mail so I really hope that I can continue using Hotmail with
POP3. With the new changes I will miss not being able to access "Sent Items"
and "Bulk Mail" from Outlook Express on the HTTP server, but so be it.

Kind Regards
Chris

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-22 22:26:17 UTC

Permalink

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
POP3/ (e.g., as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector user), the
change will not affect you.

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
WebDAV/ (aka HTML) as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector
user, you must switch to POP3 access by 30 June 2008; see set-up instrux
here:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry.

At some time in the near future, Outlook Connector users will have to
upgrade the application.

AFAIK MSN/Windows Live Messenger functionality is *not* dependant on having
Windows Live Mail installed. (There are specific newsgroups for both
Messengers where you can ask about this.)

One can have both Windows Live Mail and OE installed (in WinXP SP2) but only
one of them can be the default Mail Client. Installing Windows Live Mail in
WinXP SP2 will delete your shortcuts to OE in Start menu and Quick Launch
bar.
--
~PA Bear

Post by Chris

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

Thank you for this information. So does this mean that when the new changes
1-Only HTTP Hotmail will stop working with Outlook Express and POP3 access
will carry on as usual?
2- MSN Messenger will stop working unless live mail is installed?
3- One cannot install both live mail and outlook express?
I have a subscription hotmail account and currently access it with both POP3
and HTTP with simultaneous syncronization. I do not really wish to change to
windows live mail so I really hope that I can continue using Hotmail with
POP3. With the new changes I will miss not being able to access "Sent Items"
and "Bulk Mail" from Outlook Express on the HTTP server, but so be it.
Kind Regards
Chris

Chris

2008-04-23 11:16:00 UTC

Permalink

Thanks, just what I needed to know.

Kind Regards
Chris

ANUNCIOS-24H.COM

2008-05-01 17:25:57 UTC

Permalink

OPORTUNIDAD PUEDES ESTAR PREZENTA EN MAS DE 30 PAISES CON EL NUEVO POTAL DE
ANUNCIOS GRATUITOS WWW.ANUNCIOS-24H.COM PARA PARTICULARES Y EMPRESAS
...ANUNCIOS EN CATEGORIAS ...Y MUCHO MAS

N. Miller

2008-04-27 16:25:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by VanguardLH
Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects...

More so than MS Outlook Express? Could you elaborate?

Post by VanguardLH
...just so they can push their Hotmail users to use a client and connect
to their HTTP servers that now support DeltaSync
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so Microsoft doesn't have
to support already established e-mail protocols and lock their Hotmail
users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

WebDAV isn't, exactly, an "established" protocol. It is, and always has
been, a closed-source, proprietary protocol. And anybody using MSN Hotmail
between the time that they shut off POP3/SMTP access, and shut of WebDAV
access has been locked in to using Microsoft e-mail clients. With the
possible exception of IncrediMail, which is probably the only client worse
than MS Outlook Express, I can't think of a client which includes support
for WebDAV. This is what happens with closed-source, proprietary systmes.

"Established" protocols, at least of the open source variety, are:

POP3
IMAP
SMTP

MS Outlook Express will continue to support those "estabished" protocols,
and even Windows Live Hotmail will support them on the paid accounts.

Post by VanguardLH
Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

Or they might just be "going with the flow". Of four people, whom I help
with computer support, none routinely use a desktop e-mail client; only one
even knows what an e-mail client is. I'd guess that 65% to 70% of the users
on the Internet, and 85% to 90% of new users, don't even know that there is
more to the Internet than the web.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

w***@hotmail.co.uk

2008-05-07 06:44:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by N. Miller

More so than MS Outlook Express? Could you elaborate?

WebDAV isn't, exactly, an "established" protocol. It is, and always has
been, a closed-source, proprietary protocol. And anybody using MSN Hotmail
between the time that they shut off POP3/SMTP access, and shut of WebDAV
access has been locked in to using Microsoft e-mail clients. With the
possible exception of IncrediMail, which is probably the only client worse
than MS Outlook Express, I can't think of a client which includes support
for WebDAV. This is what happens with closed-source, proprietary systmes.
POP3
IMAP
SMTP
MS Outlook Express will continue to support those "estabished" protocols,
and even Windows Live Hotmail will support them on the paid accounts.

Windows Live Mail Technologies Support

2008-04-18 15:48:00 UTC

Permalink

Hello All,

I wanted to take some time to address the concerns/questions that have
started on this thread.

Microsoft is doing this to force people onto the client: False. We are
doing this because the DAV protocol is inefficient on larger mailbox sizes.
Once Hotmail upgrade storage space synchronization issues happen within DAV.
DeltaSynch is a stable protocol that will be able to efficiently handle large
accounts.

This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False. Hotmail
customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other clients such
as Thunderbird. Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
full access through your browser.

Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.
--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Liviu

2008-04-18 16:55:50 UTC

Permalink

I'll top post, too, to keep the thread at least somewhat readable.

Taking what you say at face value, I'd like to suggest a few simple
changes which would make WLM easier to test-run, and leave less of a
"doing this to force people onto the client: false" impression...

1. Provide a bare no-strings-attached install. Right now, even the
mail-only option downloads some sign-in assistant and live updater.

Current workaround: pretend to install in a sandbox (e.g. VM), then
grab the WLM .MSI file once downloaded, and use that one to install
on the master machine.

2. Ask before importing existing accounts e.g. from OE, not everybody
needs/appreciates that being done automatically with no opt-out choice.

Current workaround for OE: create a dummy identity with no accounts, set
it as default before installing WLM.

3. Don't touch the existing windows update settings, and definitely not
without asking. WLM is (billed as) an email client, not a system nanny.

Current workaround: if auto-update was turned off before installing WLM,
turn it back off afterwards.

4. Don't steal the .EML and .NWS file associations without asking,
especially when WLM is _not_ set as the default client.

Current workaround: restore associations manually after WLM install.

The above notwithstanding, it is true that WLM can be run (for hotmail
access, for example) side-by-side with other email clients.

"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Hello All,
I wanted to take some time to address the concerns/questions that have
started on this thread.
Microsoft is doing this to force people onto the client: False. We are
doing this because the DAV protocol is inefficient on larger mailbox sizes.
Once Hotmail upgrade storage space synchronization issues happen within DAV.
DeltaSynch is a stable protocol that will be able to efficiently handle large
accounts.
This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False.
Hotmail
customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other clients such
as Thunderbird. Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
full access through your browser.
Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.
--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Gordon

2008-04-18 17:06:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by Liviu
I'll top post, too, to keep the thread at least somewhat readable.

So you bread a book bottom up, do you?

Liviu

2008-04-18 17:14:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by Gordon

Post by Liviu
I'll top post, too, to keep the thread at least somewhat readable.

So you bread a book bottom up, do you?

No, but if someone started reading it to me backwards already, I might
as well continue in the same direction. If nothing else, makes it easier
to remember where to stop ;-)

VanguardLH

2008-04-19 01:14:37 UTC

Permalink

Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
disclosed?

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False.

While there was some documentation regarding WebDAV, like
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2291, it really doesn't describe the
command set that is used between client and the Hotmail mail host. So
even if DeltaSync is a published protocol, will enough information be
dispersed by Microsoft to allow other e-mail clients to support
DeltaSync with whatever command set is required to communicate with
Hotmail? If not, users will be locked into using Microsoft e-mail
clients.

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below,
other clients such as Thunderbird.

As best as I can piece together, and after updating it today, my record
of Hotmail's history (obtained through Google, Wiki, and various other
sources) is:

Hotmail history (obtained through Google, Wiki, and various other
sources)

- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available. Provides a webmail interface to
e-mail service.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail to include in their MSN
services.
- 1999 August: Anyone can log into any Hotmail account using the
password "eh"
(http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/1999/08/21503).
- 1999 December: Microsoft forgets to pay their passport.com domain
renewal fee. Hotmail is unavailable on Christmas Eve. A Linux
consultant pays the fee and Hotmail comes back up.
- 2000 February: For MSN Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and
switches to WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that
date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN Hotmail accounts created after that date only
get WebDAV access which restricts them to using Microsoft's Outlook or
Outlook Express e-mail clients (later some plug-ins or proxies become
available to allow non-Microsoft e-mail clients to access Hotmail but
they get killed in 2004 November except for paid accounts when WebDAV
access gets pulled from free accounts).
- 2002 July: For free Hotmail accounts, POP3 access is discontinued and
switches to WebDAV access. Hotmail PLUS (paying customers) gets
POP3/SMTP mail host access.
- 2003 (autumn): Microsoft forgets to pay their hotmail.co.uk domain
renewal fee. Another good Samaritan pays the fee. No downtime.
- 2004 November: Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV access for
*new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old (and still
active) free accounts created before that policy change date (i.e.,
grandfathered accounts) continue to get WebDAV access. After this date,
Microsoft charges for WebDAV access. New plug-ins and proxies start
showing up to compensate. Old plug-ins and proxies still work with
non-Microsoft e-mail clients for *paid* Hotmail accounts where WebDAV
access remains.
- 2005 November: Microsoft officially announces Windows Live Mail
(codename Kahuna), later rebranded to Windows Live Hotmail. Goes
through some beta testing.
- 2006 November: Windows Live Hotmail first released to existing and new
Netherlands users as a pilot market.
- 2007 May: Microsoft releases Windows Live Hotmail to worldwide market.
Users can elect to stay with the MSN Hotmail or try the new Windows Live
Hotmail (classic or full) interface. They are given an option (which
eventually disappears) to switch back to MSN Hotmail.
- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.
- 2007 September: Users start reporting that Microsoft begins
involuntarily *forcing* MSN Hotmail users to migrate to the Windows Live
Hotmail interface. One day they were using MSN Hotmail, the next they
were forced to Windows Live Hotmail without any action on their part,
and they cannot switch back.
- 2007 September: POP3 access returns only for Windows Live Hotmail Plus
(paid) accounts but not for MSN Hotmail Premium (paid) accounts.
Requires SSL connects and SMTP authentication (pop3.live.com port 995,
smtp.live.com port 25 with SMTP authentication, SSL on both).
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV on all accounts and forces use of
DeltaSync protocol. For free Windows Live Hotmail accounts, users will
need to use Outlook 2003 or 2007 with the Outlook Connector plug-in
(post-1.8 version) or the Windows Live Mail client. For PAID Windows
Live Hotmail accounts, users can use any POP3/SMTP e-mail client. The
webmail interface remains available for free and paid accounts as it has
been ever since Hotmail existed.

So you'll need to qualify your statement to "Only Windows Live Hotmail
*PLUS* customers are able to utilize POP3 as of November 2007".
"Hotmail" by itself includes all types of accounts: MSN, Hotmail, or
Windows Live Hotmail and free or paid. Only the paid Windows Live
Hotmail accounts get POP/SMTP access.

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
full access through your browser.

Webmail access has been the substantive interface to Hotmail since its
debut almost 12 years ago in 1996. Nothing new there although it has
gone through facelifts and now adds Ajax. I don't think any Hotmail
user has ever pondered on policy changes, lack of POP/SMTP access,
WebDAV loss, change to DeltaSync, or the other myriad of changes to
non-webmail access to Hotmail to then wonder if there won't be a webmail
interface to Hotmail.

I forget when Microsoft decided to reduce from 2 to 1 advertisements in
the webmail interface to Hotmail but there are still plenty of users
that NEVER want to deal with the webmail interface despite the full
version of Windows Live Mail trying to act like a regular e-mail client.
You've seen a lot of whoopla over whether or not there is a webmail
interface to Hotmail?

VanguardLH

2008-04-19 01:55:39 UTC

Permalink

- Hotmail begins with a webmail interface and provides POP3/SMTP access.
- POP3/SMTP were yanked by Microsoft and replaced with WebDAV.
- WebDAV is considered inadequate and replaced with DeltaSync.
- POP3/SMTP were added back to paid Hotmail accounts.

So if WebDAV was inadequate, why go to DeltaSync at all? Obviously
POP3/SMTP was considered adequate since it was re-offered on paid
accounts (and one MS blog says that it is planned to show up for free
accounts in another 12 months, and that blog was dated back in Nov
2007).

Microsoft goes to DeltaSync *AND* goes back to POP3/SMTP, so why not
just go back to POP3/SMTP? Actually I'd like to see IMAP offered. I'm
really not interested in yet another Microsoft proprietary protocol that
non-Microsoft clients cannot support.

Found an interesting blog of a meeting at:

POP3 on Hotmail Explained: we talk to Omar Shahine
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/interview/default.aspx

which has the meeting recorded (audio only) at:
http://www.liveside.net/files/folders/5578/download.aspx

When playing in Windows Media Player, under View -> Enchancements,
disable SRS (if on) and use the graphic equalizer to drop the bass end
to make the audio more clear.

They are making the same presumption as does GMail: the user wants to
leave all their e-mails up on the server whether read or not. Not me.
I want to locally manage all my e-mails. I don't want to leave them on
the server. So the huge disk space quotas proclaimed by Hotmail, Yahoo
Mail, Gmail, and others means very little to me. I yank the messages so
they are local and I don't need all that disk space for the mailbox.
Far more important is the per-message-size quota as regards to me
retrieving those message. Fortunately I haven't been afflicted with
boob senders that spew huge-sized messages because they know how to put
large files in online disk space and provide a link to it, or I'll
educate them on how to do that.

Microsoft is thinking of e-mail going forward as a substitute for file
transfer protocols (FTP) and obviously e-mail was never designed for
that. It was designed under a trust model to deliver large volumes of
small messages. Omar talks about tens of thousands of messages in the
mailbox whereas I never have more than a couple dozen because of my
e-mail client polling and yanking the e-mails not a whole lot after when
the e-mail arrived (I poll anywhere from 10 to 60 minutes depending on
the use of a particular account and its level of traffic). I do not
want large messages. If I started to get them, I'd configure Outlook to
NOT download them, I'd use the webmail interface to check them, and I'd
probably tell the sender to put their huge e-mail in an anatomical
orifice.

SaGS

2008-04-23 13:11:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by VanguardLH
...
POP3 on Hotmail Explained: we talk to Omar Shahine
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/interview/default.aspx
http://www.liveside.net/files/folders/5578/download.aspx
...

I have to correct something said in that interview: GMAil *DOES* have IMAP
support for quite some time now (but I am not very sure when it was
introduced, relative to that interview's date). So when DAV support for
Hotmail goes away, I think I'll switch completely to GMail. My Hotmail
account will probably have the same faith as my Yahoo! account: 100% unused,
because of not being able to access it from OE.

ANONYMOUS

2008-04-25 20:58:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by SaGS
I have to correct something said in that interview: GMAil *DOES* have IMAP
support for quite some time now (but I am not very sure when it was
introduced, relative to that interview's date). So when DAV support for
Hotmail goes away, I think I'll switch completely to GMail. My Hotmail
account will probably have the same faith as my Yahoo! account: 100% unused,
because of not being able to access it from OE.

You can access yahoo.co.uk in Outlook Express, Outlook or any other email client
you care to use (BUT YOU CAN'T ACCESS YAHOO.COM). Also, Windows Live Mail is a
replacement for OE and one should try it before changing email accounts. It
allows access to hotmail account.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-26 00:34:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by ANONYMOUS

Post by SaGS
I have to correct something said in that interview: GMAil *DOES* have IMAP
support for quite some time now (but I am not very sure when it was
introduced, relative to that interview's date). So when DAV support for
Hotmail goes away, I think I'll switch completely to GMail. My Hotmail
account will probably have the same faith as my Yahoo! account: 100%
unused, because of not being able to access it from OE.

You can access yahoo.co.uk in Outlook Express, Outlook or any other email
client you care to use (BUT YOU CAN'T ACCESS YAHOO.COM). Also, Windows
Live Mail is a replacement for OE and one should try it before changing
email accounts. It allows access to hotmail account.

There are several ways to access a US- and CA-based Yahoo account via POP3.

Windows Live Mail is an alternate mail client, it is not a replacement for
OE.

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-19 07:21:15 UTC

Permalink

Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~PA Bear

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>

Post by VanguardLH
Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
disclosed?

<snip>

VanguardLH

2008-04-19 07:58:40 UTC

Permalink

(had to be added manually since PA Bear incorrectly leaves the sigdash
delimiter BEFORE the quoted content - and many non-Microsoft NNTP
clients comply with RFC as to placement and will also strip the
signature from replies. OE has a registry hack to move the signature to
its proper position at the end of the reply.)

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
<snip>

<snip>
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Asking for documentation or an SDK for DeltaSync is not a question about
how to use the Windows Live Mail client.

VanguardLH

2008-04-19 19:43:02 UTC

Permalink

It's not a question for IE- and/or OE-newsgroups either.

You mean the groups to which YOU chose to submit your original post.

Windows Live Mail Technologies Support

2008-04-21 16:07:20 UTC

Permalink

To correct myself...

Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other
clients such as Thunderbird.

I meant Hotmail PLUS customers are able to utilize POP3 as they currently
do...
--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Support Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation
"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-21 19:40:17 UTC

Permalink

cf. http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5441.entry
--
~PA Bear

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
To correct myself...
Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other
clients such as Thunderbird.
I meant Hotmail PLUS customers are able to utilize POP3 as they currently
do...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you
will
no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

...winston

2008-04-22 17:13:08 UTC

Permalink

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.
--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

Scott,
The above (1.8 or later) may be somewhat confusing to those having Office available but currently using OE for Hotmail.

a. The version number of the current available Outlook Connector on the msft download site is [4]
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7aad7e6a-931e-438a-950c-5e9ea66322d4&displaylang=en

b. On the same site and within the available downloadable *.doc/*.docx file for the current OL Connector is referred to as version
12.0
"Microsoft Office Outlook Connector 12.0"

--
winston
ms-mvp mail

Alex Plantema

2008-04-27 11:59:13 UTC

Permalink

What could be the reason, other than spyware in Windows Live Mail,
for the inclusion of the Potentially Unwanted Software paragraph on
http://help.live.com/help.aspx?mkt=en-us&project=tou ?

--
Alex.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-27 13:36:25 UTC

Permalink

You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
applications, not just Windows Live Mail.

These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either of
which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may cause
other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on your
computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a license to use
other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using OneCare to remove the
"sponsor software" which may be included when you install Messenger Plus,
depending on how MP is installed).

I am neither an apologist/evangelist for nor do I represent Microsoft.

--
~PA Bear

Post by Alex Plantema
What could be the reason, other than spyware in Windows Live Mail,
for the inclusion of the Potentially Unwanted Software paragraph on
http://help.live.com/help.aspx?mkt=en-us&project=tou ?

David Morgan (MAMS)

2008-04-28 00:47:34 UTC

Permalink

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
applications, not just Windows Live Mail.
These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either of
which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may cause
other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on your
computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a license to use
other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using OneCare to remove the
"sponsor software" which may be included when you install Messenger Plus,
depending on how MP is installed).
I am neither an apologist/evangelist for nor do I represent Microsoft.

I'm glad to hear that. ;-)

DM

Too many open ports these days.....

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
--
~PA Bear

Alex Plantema

2008-04-28 23:28:43 UTC

Permalink

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
applications, not just Windows Live Mail.
These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either
of which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may
cause other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on
your computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a
license to use other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using
OneCare to remove the "sponsor software" which may be included when
you install Messenger Plus, depending on how MP is installed).

Thank you for your explanation.

--
Alex.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-28 23:41:17 UTC

Permalink

Post by Alex Plantema

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
applications, not just Windows Live Mail.
These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either
of which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may
cause other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on
your computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a
license to use other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using
OneCare to remove the "sponsor software" which may be included when
you install Messenger Plus, depending on how MP is installed).

Thank you for your explanation.

YW, Alex. Thanks for posting back.

...winston

2008-05-01 05:46:41 UTC

Permalink

I'm happy to report and clear up some confusion(mine and maybe others) on
the OLC version number.
Provided and permitted for use by Scott Hammer, Msft.
<qp>
Outlook Connector 12 is the latest version.
The link below is the OLC that will be DeltaSynch compliant.
</qp>

Here's the link for Outlook Connector Version 12
<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7aad7e6a-931e-438a-950c-5e9ea66322d4&displaylang=en>

Scott, thanks again...we appreciate the additional info !
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Hello All,

Post by Windows Live Mail Technologies Support
Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user

utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-05-01 18:51:57 UTC

Permalink

@Scott: Why does the Download page still say "Version: 4" ???

Post by ...winston
Here's the link for Outlook Connector Version 12
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7aad7e6a-931e-438a-950c-5e9ea66322d4

ANONYMOUS

2008-05-01 20:02:14 UTC

Permalink

Because there is no such thing as version 12. Could it be that he meant
connecter for Office [with Outlook] version 12?

Hope this helps.

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
@Scott: Why does the Download page still say "Version: 4" ???

Post by ...winston
Here's the link for Outlook Connector Version 12
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7aad7e6a-931e-438a-950c-5e9ea66322d4

GEEKETTE

2008-04-25 09:56:01 UTC

Permalink

What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP network
home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her. She'd
love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM

2008-04-25 12:20:12 UTC

Permalink

Use Internet Explorer.

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP network
home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her.
She'd
love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

David Morgan (MAMS)

2008-04-26 02:57:11 UTC

Permalink

Post by Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
Use Internet Explorer.

I see no reason that this isn't THE correct answer

Post by Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM

Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM

2008-04-26 03:16:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by David Morgan (MAMS)

Post by Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
Use Internet Explorer.

I see no reason that this isn't THE correct answer

Thanks, but it's certainly not the only answer. Only the end user can
decide which is best.

--
Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
Do not reply with email

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-25 14:00:42 UTC

Permalink

Mom will have to subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus (US$19.95/year)and
then reconfigure the account to be accessed via POP3 before 30 June 2008.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She
manages groups for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address
but is able to deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to
be http, the sbc and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to
prepare her. She'd love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

GEEKETTE

2008-04-25 21:43:01 UTC

Permalink

Any ides where to find the info to reconfigure it? I can probably make the
changes but I wouldn't know what the settings should be changed to. Thanks
for all the help folks!

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Mom will have to subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus (US$19.95/year)and
then reconfigure the account to be accessed via POP3 before 30 June 2008.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She
manages groups for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address
but is able to deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to
be http, the sbc and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to
prepare her. She'd love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-26 00:28:10 UTC

Permalink

See the settings for POP3 access here:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry
--
~PA Bear

Post by GEEKETTE
Any ides where to find the info to reconfigure it? I can probably make the
changes but I wouldn't know what the settings should be changed to.
Thanks
for all the help folks!

<paste>

Post by GEEKETTE
She does pay $19.95 per year - will she not be affected? Are there any
changes she needs to make to the way her OE gets her MSN Mail? It is
in the settings, the other two are pop3.
She doesn't like the process she has to go through to keep her mail handy
using the gmail or sbc interface, I'm not sure how she'll feel about the
New
Win webmail. Still, will the new Windows Live Mail install on WIN98? I
would guess not but couldn't find any specifics on that either.

</paste>

Post by GEEKETTE

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
Mom will have to subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus
(US$19.95/year)and
then reconfigure the account to be accessed via POP3 before 30 June 2008.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She
manages groups for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address
but is able to deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to
be http, the sbc and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to
prepare her. She'd love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

...winston

2008-04-26 04:01:26 UTC

Permalink

After subscribing to Hotmail Plus
http://get.live.com/en-us/mailplus/features

If you find that OE defaults to one of the following(after entry of hotmail or msn or live.com address)
a. an http account
b. an http server
c. a message indicating that http is not supported

To overcome the above issue, restart the process and instead of <yourusername>@hotmail.com temporarily enter
<yourusername>@xyz.com, once the balance of the pop3 settings are configured correctly , go back and edit the email address field
in the incoming server to the correct email address, then test the account(send yourself a message)

Use of Pop3 for a Hotmail Plus account will not synchronize any additional user folders created within the Hotmail account using
the prior interface(OE or the Web[Hotmail.com])
- the Junk Mail folder will have to be monitored via the web interface(hotmail.com or mail.live.com)
- any user created folder within the prior http Hotmail account will not appear locally.
- rules created within the Hotmail web interfaced will continue to function(if moved to the web based user folders, those messages
will not appear in the OE Inbox. If the local Inbox is the preferred destination, delete the rules in the web interface and create
new ones locally in OE.

--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

Post by GEEKETTE
Any ides where to find the info to reconfigure it? I can probably make the
changes but I wouldn't know what the settings should be changed to. Thanks
for all the help folks!

z***@datanumen.net

2008-04-26 11:08:07 UTC

Permalink

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She
manages groups for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address
but is able to deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to
be http, the sbc and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to
prepare her. She'd love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.as...
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Adminhttp://aumha.net
DTS-Lhttp://dts-l.net/- 隐藏被引用文字 -

- 显示引用的文字 -

Hi,

After having tried various of methods without improvement, you can
have a try to use special utility to repair your Outlook Express dbx
file. I know one, called Advanced Outlook Express Repair.
Fortunately , It worked rather well for my corrupt Outlook Express dbx
files last time. I think it may be helpful to you. You can download it
from the following address .Its web address is http://www.datanumen.com/aoer/

Alan

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-26 14:05:05 UTC

Permalink

SPAM!!

***@datanumen.net wrote:
<snip>

Post by z***@datanumen.net
Hi,
After having tried various of methods without improvement, you can
have a try to use special utility to repair your Outlook Express dbx
file. I know one, called Advanced Outlook Express Repair.
Fortunately , It worked rather well for my corrupt Outlook Express dbx
files last time. I think it may be helpful to you. You can download it
from the following address .Its web address is
XXX.datanumen.com/aoer/
Alan

ANONYMOUS

2008-04-26 20:16:36 UTC

Permalink

and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

And you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

Please refrain from replying to spammers if they are what you claim to be!

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
SPAM!!
<snip>

Hi,

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-26 20:20:38 UTC

Permalink

No, I munged the links.

Post by ANONYMOUS
and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!
and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!
and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!
And you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!
Please refrain from replying to spammers if they are what you claim to be!

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
SPAM!!
<snip>

Hi,

ANONYMOUS

2008-04-25 20:54:23 UTC

Permalink

She will need to download and start using Windows Live Mail available free of charge from here:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=ba346005-45f6-4d14-a7dc-51e13d11a950&displaylang=en&tm

The service is completely free as far as I know because I am using it!!!

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP network
home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her. She'd
love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-26 00:32:46 UTC

Permalink

Please do some research before posting such information: Windows Live Mail
is *not* supported in Win9x.
--
~PA Bear

Post by ANONYMOUS
She will need to download and start using Windows Live Mail available free
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=ba346005-45f6-4d14-a7dc-51e13d11a950&displaylang=en&tm
The service is completely free as far as I know because I am using it!!!

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She
manages groups for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email
address
but is able to deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear
to
be http, the sbc and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to
prepare her. She'd love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you
will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM

2008-04-26 00:43:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by ANONYMOUS
She will need to download and start using Windows Live Mail available free
The service is completely free as far as I know because I am using it!!!

Can't.
She has Win98.

--
Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
Do not reply with email

GEEKETTE

2008-04-25 21:37:00 UTC

Permalink

She does pay $19.95 per year - will she not be affected? Are there any
changes she needs to make to the way her OE gets her MSN Mail? It is http:
in the settings, the other two are pop3.

She doesn't like the process she has to go through to keep her mail handy
using the gmail or sbc interface, I'm not sure how she'll feel about the New
Win webmail. Still, will the new Windows Live Mail install on WIN98? I
would guess not but couldn't find any specifics on that either.

Thanks for the help!

Post by GEEKETTE
What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP network
home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her. She'd
love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

mae

2008-04-25 22:23:54 UTC

Permalink

No, the new mail will not install on "98;
Since she apparently has what is called Live Hotmail Plus?,
she can change the server from http to POP.
If you sign-in to the Live Hotmail account on the web,
there are full instructions for the settings.
It is one of the FAQ's.
I have set that up on a 98 for a test and it works.
I do have to set the filters, options etc. on the web (at this time)

mae

"GEEKETTE" <***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:CC2D4183-7E31-476F-B4F0-***@microsoft.com...
| She does pay $19.95 per year - will she not be affected? Are there any
| changes she needs to make to the way her OE gets her MSN Mail? It is http:
| in the settings, the other two are pop3.
|
| She doesn't like the process she has to go through to keep her mail handy
| using the gmail or sbc interface, I'm not sure how she'll feel about the New
| Win webmail. Still, will the new Windows Live Mail install on WIN98? I
| would guess not but couldn't find any specifics on that either.
|
| Thanks for the help!
|
| "GEEKETTE" wrote:
|
| > What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
network
| > home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
| > for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
| > deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
| > and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her. She'd
| > love to keep things just the way she uses it now...
| >
| > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:
| >
| > > [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
| > > set for OE General]
| > >
| > > Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
| > > <quote>
| > > As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no
| > > longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
| > > Outlook Express...
| > > </quote>
| > > Source:
| > > http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
| > >
| > > ======================
| > >
| > > Please Note:
| > >
| > > 1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
| > > Express.
| > >
| > > 2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
| > > Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
| > >
| > > 3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
| > > Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
| > > unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
| > > Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
| > > installation!
| > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| > >
| > > Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
| > > microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
| > >
| > > Via the web-interface:
| > >
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
| > >
| > > Via your newsreader:
| > > news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
| > > --
| > > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
| > > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
| > > AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
| > > DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
| > >
| > >

Anon

2008-04-27 00:31:00 UTC

Permalink

Boo Boo Boo -- My OE works just fine. I resent being forced off Hotmail when
my OE works perfectly fine with it.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2008-04-27 13:49:34 UTC

Permalink

You're not "being forced off Hotmail" in Outlook Express (OE) since you have
the option of becoming a Hotmail Plus subscriber. (If you created your free
Hotmail account after 27 September 2004, you wouldn't have been able to
access it in OE in the first place without being a Hotmail Plus subscriber.)

Effective 30 June 2008, OE will not work "perfectly fine" with your Hotmail
account if it's not set up as a POP3 account (which would require (1) a
Hotmail Plus subscription and (2) reconfiguring the account settings.

This change also applies to free Hotmail accounts accessed in MS Outlook
/if/ Outlook Connector isn't installed. (And Outlook Connector users will
have to upgrade from their current version.)
--
~PA Bear

Post by Anon
Boo Boo Boo -- My OE works just fine. I resent being forced off Hotmail
when my OE works perfectly fine with it.

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Nancy

2009-01-24 19:07:01 UTC

Permalink

I probably should get out more often and I wouldn't have these PC problems.
Want to take me out to dinner?

Since I really don't have any options but to do Windows Live Mail I 've
decided to forget it and just use webmail for the hotmail account.
I have some pop3 emails for my business and want to keep with
Outlook Express for now.

Thanks for your help.
Nancy
--

D. Spencer Hines

2009-01-24 19:32:35 UTC

Permalink

Spot On!

Thousands are voting with you.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

Post by Nancy
I probably should get out more often and I wouldn't have these PC problems.
Want to take me out to dinner?
Since I really don't have any options but to do Windows Live Mail I 've
decided to forget it and just use webmail for the hotmail account.
I have some pop3 emails for my business and want to keep with
Outlook Express for now.
Thanks for your help.
Nancy
--

GERARDO MARIO

2009-01-24 21:38:36 UTC

Permalink

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2009-01-24 22:12:28 UTC

Permalink

Post by Nancy
I probably should get out more often and I wouldn't have these PC problems.
Want to take me out to dinner?

Boy, are you barking up the wrong tree, girlfriend! <eg>

Post by Nancy
Since I really don't have any options but to do Windows Live Mail I 've
decided to forget it and just use webmail for the hotmail account.
I have some pop3 emails for my business and want to keep with
Outlook Express for now.
Thanks for your help.

YW but if you'd bother to check out the links in my previous reply you'd see
that accessing free Hotmail accounts in OE, OL, and any other Mail Client
via POP3 is either available now or will be soon.

--
~PA Bear

lagrandeur mercilia

2009-01-25 03:46:45 UTC

Permalink

Rich/rerat

2009-01-27 12:17:00 UTC

Permalink

PA Bear,
MS has delayed the "Disabling of the DAV protocol used in accessing legacy
Hotmail accts (pre Sept 2001) through Outlook Express and OUTLOOK. And they have
not announced the new date, that the intend to disable DAV for good.

Microsoft Extends Deadline for Outlook Link to Hotmail
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/05/07/microsoft-extends-deadline-for-outlook-link-to-hotmail?sub=q_reply&cid=635212&num=4

In the article it also mentions Outlook Express, for this extension. I do not
know how that effects non MS mail applications like Thunderbird, Mozilla, etc...

I still download messages through OE & Outlook for my Hotmail acct, that was
established before Sept 2001.
--
Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat
(RRR News) <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>

PA Bear [MS MVP]

2009-01-27 16:05:31 UTC

Permalink

My post dates from 18 April 2008 and most replies to it were made within the
next 2 or 3 weeks. "Nancy" rediscovered the thread on 23 January 2009 and
gave it new life. (My original post had all Follow-up set for OE General
newsgroup.)

There have been many developments since April 2008, including this:
http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/settings/archive/2009/01/13/pop3-availability-in-windows-live-hotmail.aspx.
--
~PA Bear

Post by VanguardLH
PA Bear,
MS has delayed the "Disabling of the DAV protocol used in accessing legacy
Hotmail accts (pre Sept 2001) through Outlook Express and OUTLOOK. And
they
have not announced the new date, that the intend to disable DAV for good.
Microsoft Extends Deadline for Outlook Link to Hotmail
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/05/07/microsoft-extends-deadline-for-outlook-link-to-hotmail?sub=q_reply&cid=635212&num=4
In the article it also mentions Outlook Express, for this extension. I do
not know how that effects non MS mail applications like Thunderbird,
Mozilla, etc...
I still download messages through OE & Outlook for my Hotmail acct, that was
established before Sept 2001.

Post by PA Bear [MS MVP]
[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]
Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
via Outlook Express...
</quote>
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
======================
1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.
2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/